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Mark Evans: Hi. It's Mark Evans, and you're listening to Marketing Spark. It's hard, if not impossible, to avoid content advice, guidance, and recommendations about how and why you build a personal brand. It's seemingly not enough to be a good person or do the right things. We need to establish and nurture a personal brand so it reflects our values, beliefs, ideas, and approaches to the world.
So why is a personal brand so important, and how do you do that online? Today, I'm talking with Michelle Griffin, a personal brand strategist and the host of the Business of You podcast. Welcome to Marketing Spark, Michelle.
Michelle Griffin: So good to be here. Thank you, Mark.
Mark Evans: Let's kick things off with a straightforward question, a softball question.
Michelle Griffin: Okay.
Mark Evans: What's your definition of a personal brand?
Michelle Griffin: Oh, great question because, as you know, it's like asking someone what the definition of a brand brand is. There's so many different answers, and everyone has their take. But mine is going to ad lib it. It's you dialed in just like a company brand, but it's you. It's having a foundational, strategic, intentional way to show up So you form that brand that connection, that emotional connection like a company brand does.
Right? And I do it the way that it's it's really tied to an ROI to build your business. It's not fluffy and self promotional. It's all of being in value and service with the people first marketing approach. So form intentionally forming that connection so people, you know, know you're the top of mind and know who you are to help them.
So that's very ad libbed, my definition. I actually have a formal definition I'll share if you have show notes. We can put it in there.
Mark Evans: Sounds good. Sounds good. So elaborate on the people first approach to personal branding. Because, obviously, there's different ways to skin a cat, there's different approaches to personal branding. What's your what is your approach?
What's your philosophy?
Michelle Griffin: My philosophy is that you need to be dialed in exactly just like you said, you you nailed it. Like, what is your perspective? In today's day and age, we are, a commodity. You know? There's millions of marketers, millions of branders.
But, like, the only way people are gonna resonate in this day and age to break through the noise and the attention economy is to have a point of view, to stand for something, and to keep putting that out there in service to others, just being all about other people, but intentionally making that happen. Because that's one thing I see people do. They just get out there thinking that's it. But you just like a brand marketing, you gotta have a strategy. You know that well.
That's what you do in marketing. So having a strategy and I do work with clients. I have a seven step process that I created to nail all that. That's my biggest take. Have a strategy and be intentional, but be of service to others.
Mark Evans: So individuals have been focused on personal brands for decades. It's not a new concept. I think a lot of people have recognized that if you have a high profile, if people perceive you in a certain way, then that's gonna help you professionally and personally. Mhmm. But I am interested in why there seems to be so much focus or fascination on building a personal brand.
You look through your LinkedIn news feed, and there are lots of people talking about the value of personal branding. I'm just curious about why that is and and whether it reflects the economy and the volatility of the conditions these days, or there's something else to it.
Michelle Griffin: Absolutely. Well, first, I'm gonna admit that the the name gets a bad rap, and there's a lot of misconceptions because there's it's the Wild West out there. Right? No one everyone knows they just need to stand out and to have visibility, but not for the wrong reasons, at least the way I do it. Not to be all about mean self promotional.
It's like, I I have something valuable. I have expertise to share to help people to solve a problem. Right? That's our own business. So you need to stand out.
I mean, we're more and more crowded in the marketplace, some influx of marketing messages, all the things. There's more people in line now. So how do you get out there to find who you are, differentiate yourself to say, hey. I'm here. I have somebody I'm someone you should know because I have some with a problem I can help you solve.
It's the visibility. It's being known, noticed and known to get the results. So I think influx of last year more and more people online really played a lot into it. I also think there's a big a lot of misconceptions of what it is. And people, you know, hashtag personal branding on Instagram, call it personal branding.
And and I'm out to just kinda disprove all that and and to really make clear, you know, a real personal brand, at least the way I do it to build your perception, reputation for your business, needs to be exactly like a brand strategy for a company, but with a person, with your point of view and perspective expertise dialed in.
Mark Evans: Okay. In theory, everyone likes the idea of a personal brand. Everybody wants a higher profile. Everybody wants to be perceived in a certain way so that when you step out into the world, your reputation precedes you.
Michelle Griffin: Mhmm.
Mark Evans: So in practice, where do you start with a personal brand? I mean, it's one thing to aspire to build a bigger, better brand.
Michelle Griffin: Mhmm.
Mark Evans: But how does the journey begin? What are the first steps?
Michelle Griffin: You know, just like anything, we're first, we're gonna outline the goals. What are I really? Who am I? What do I want? What do I want out of this?
If it's just one fanfare and stuff, yeah, it's a whole different, you know, path to take. But if you strategically want to keep building it to meet these goals for you and your business, just like a company brand, Start with the goals. And we're gonna start with, you know, deep diving. The way I do it, I I have a seven step process. I'll tell you real quick.
So I start with the perspective. Perspective all about you, your personal, your professional, your industry, your ideal client, all the stuff that makes I I consider it like taking a thousand piece puzzle and dumping it on the table. Let's make sense of this. Let's define all the things just like you would a regular brand or marketing strategy. And, you know, getting really clear on that.
The next one is people. Now as a marketer, you know, hey, Michelle. You have one ideal client. Right? Ideally.
Well, I call people two things. First is your ideal client persona after whatever, you know, the lingo we wanna call that one person we're here to help. But, also, I wrote a post about this today in LinkedIn. Your partners. You will grow your brand and yourself absolutely faster when you have a community partners, like minded people, you know, sister things to to help build you up.
And I've seen that firsthand with clients and myself this year. You've gotta have that that partnership. And then the third one is the positioning. How are you standing out in the market? That is critical.
It's probably my favorite thing to do is I'll help you take all the pieces that are you, and I promise you there's a way to differentiate yourself. Just because you're a marketer doesn't mean you're like the hundreds of thousands of marketers. We will help you find a way, and that's a lot based as a personal brand, your perspectives and beliefs, and and the way you see the world and all that. And to have a way to see the world, we pull that out of you. And the next one is packaging.
Now packaging to me is not about self promotional. It's like packaging your messaging. Your client messaging is so important. Your website, also your social handles, your marketing assets, all the things that are gonna help build that brand. The next one is content publish or p is publishing.
It's all about the content. Now the content on social, and I also like to build your own platform. You know? Where are you putting stuff out in the world at your own place? The next one is promotion.
Once we get you dialed in, where can we amplify that? Where can we get you, like, on podcast? Start your own podcast. Reading. Write.
All the things that are gonna get you in front of more people to snowball at. And the seventh step is propel. Keep checking the analytics and building the trust, building all that to keep growing it. A personal brand is not a one and done. It's like anything.
You gotta just keep building it, refining it, checking the measurements, all the good things. So, basically, I am, like, taking what you probably do, Mark, and then just make it about a person. And I work with a lot of expertise based businesses and help them help them get out there. So does that answer your question, seven steps? I gave a high level view.
But
Mark Evans: It's very similar to the way that I work with b to b SaaS companies. I go through the exact same steps.
Michelle Griffin: I love the pa Okay.
Mark Evans: The puzzle analogy is great because you're dealing with all this information, and you're trying to Yes. Put it all together. The one area that I did wanna focus on is positioning because I love positioning like you do. I love positioning and messaging and telling a story that's unique and distinct. I am interested in how you do that because, for example, there are lots of people who are digital marketers or salespeople or focus on social media.
How do you find that uniqueness in somebody? What do you do? What do they have to do to identify what makes them different in the marketplace even in a small way? Because if you can do that, then you can establish a point of view. Then you can I don't know if it's rise above the crowd, but you can stand apart in even a small way?
So what is your what is your process to making that happen?
Michelle Griffin: Oh, yeah. Well, it it really comes from that 100 p thousand piece puzzle puzzle dumping. I work you know, in my program, I work with my clients. We spend a lot of time together. You know?
I have to pull out they have it inside of them. They just need someone like me to connect the dots like you. So we I have a lot of questions that I pull out, and I just we talk it through. And I'll say, what about this? What about that?
But I find a way to blend. Every single one of my clients says something in that initial first two calls, and I'm like, there's the clue. I keep digging deeper and finding that golden thread. And and so I'll push back on them. Like, what about this?
What about that? But there's a way to combine your perspective, your experience, your skills, your point of view to find that point of view or their beliefs. You know, these day this day and age, you gotta have something to stand for to really you know, people have there's a million things to find billions of things to find in Google. Right? Information is a commodity.
We need someone to form that connection with. So I I really just work hard in finding, you know, that one way to spin that golden thread and make them stand out. And and, really, I'm working with a story based framework as you do, and, that's how people connect. So it's hard to say because I have to be in the moment. But did I give you any clue of finding that golden thread is what I I aim for?
Mark Evans: You did, and it does take a lot of work. And sometimes what I find interesting is what's obvious to you, what makes someone different or special isn't obvious to them. They just think that's the way that they are. That's their personality or their approach to the world. So I think that is very interesting.
The other thing I wanted to ask you about building a personal brand is that on LinkedIn where you and I spend a lot of time, probably too much time, I would say, there's a lot of consultants out there, people like you and I that or individual business owners that have a vested interest in building a personal brand, in establishing a presence that's distinct and that attracts the spotlight. But what about entrepreneurs and business leaders in terms of how and whether they should build a personal brand? Things like they would ask, well, what's in it for them? Some would argue that it takes way too much time and effort to actually do it. Two questions.
What's the importance of building a personal brand for an entrepreneur, a startup entrepreneur, or a Mhmm. Or an executive, a c suite executives? And what's the ROI? Like, why should they do it?
Michelle Griffin: It's a great question. Because, you know, I get a lot of people say, well, I work for a company. Why should I have a personal brand? Well, everyone should work on their personal brand. Just because you work for a company or have a title, that's that could be temporary, or could it's not forever maybe.
Right? Your personal brand takes you everywhere. It's gonna help you stand out in the market if you're in the company setting, you know, employee. You're gonna be known for that. So the the, incentives to get another job, get more promotion, start speaking.
Why wouldn't you wanna create more opportunity for yourself? No one else is gonna give you permission or do it best for you. So so get out there, and there's a ways to do it. I get I get a lot of DMs from people and companies like, how do I build my brand when I work for a company? And and I give them clues.
And and, you know, the main thing is some companies are more lenient than others on social media. I mean, I can give you examples probably on air, but of people I know who are working for Fortune 10 companies are building their personal brand. And and it's just the way to make sure that you have that purse that professional security. Right? For a founder, what other way to build that quick connection when you're harsh, you don't have a lot of money to start up?
Getting out there, being the face of your business is going to instantly attract more people to you. You know, you're gonna stand out. There's too many people hiding behind their businesses. You know, come on out. We wanna know you.
In this day and age, we wanna know who's behind the brand. Right? So getting out there and forming that human connection, that's what it's all about. That's what people are begging for and wanting and resonating with these days.
Mark Evans: What I find interesting is that there are so few CEOs who build a personal brand. And this is I'm not talking about corporate PR to put somebody on the cover of magazines. I'm talking about CEOs having a a very obvious presence, a very engaged presence on a social media platform like Dinan. Somebody like Casey Graham, for example, from Groovy, who has established a huge following and a big personal brand, and he's done a lot of work, invested a lot of time to make that happen. Why are there not more CEOs with a really active social presence as a way to build their own personal brands and, in turn, build the awareness of the companies that they work for?
Michelle Griffin: Oh, that's a great question. You know, I don't know if they just don't realize the importance of it. That's one of the one things to dispel. They think it takes too much time. They think someone else should do it.
You can't format your personal brand to someone else. You really can't. I mean, I know there are CEOs who are having people do content and stuff, and and I guess I can work. But to really nail it like Casey does, oh my goodness. And he'll tell you the story.
If you dig back, I've been on webinars. He just started doing this two years ago, like, in 2019 or something. I mean, he is phenomenally grown. It's just being relatable and human, and that's what the world needs. That's why I do personal branding.
You know? I've always been a people first marketer about human to human connection, and I love you love working with personal brands because you can bring that out. It will I mean, let's talk about some of the bad PR we've seen in the last week. I'm not gonna mention some of the things about ZOs. Right?
So just, you know, being human is what people helps. And you can't and you can do it not every day. There's not you don't have to spend all the time like some of the consultants do, but just have a presence. You'd be surprised if you look at some of these company CEO things. Their presence is just like a picture on the wall.
That's it. There's no human personalized connection. So that's that's a huge thing, realizing you need it. And I don't know if people realize there's opportunity to be had.
Mark Evans: Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about how to build a personal brand on LinkedIn because I know that you spend a lot of time advising people on how to do that, and your content reflects that on LinkedIn. So what are the first steps to take if you're looking to leverage LinkedIn to build a personal brand?
Michelle Griffin: Okay. Great question. Because you really shouldn't just hop on just to hop on. You need strategy in place. Obviously, find out why I mean, figure out why are you on LinkedIn.
Are you just trying to, you know, have fun, make content, or is it tied to a strategic business, you know, endeavor? Figure out, you know, how am I gonna show up? What are my goals? And then get your profile in check. Sadly, that is such a missed opportunity.
First impressions sometimes are last impressions. I see way too many people with incomplete profiles, missing banners, headlines that just say they're, you know, VP at x y z company. That's not telling me anything. People's attention spans are short these days. So get in a really good headline.
A dot your headline is probably the most important. It it follows you everywhere, as you know, so get that really clear. When I work in Clubhouse, every Thursday on LinkedIn mastery, we've been doing LinkedIn profiles all this month because it's such a huge need, and people struggle with it. You know? And I get it.
I always say it's hard to see the picture of the frame you're in. Right? It's so hard to write about yourself and communicate your value. So having a really good profile and then making sure your about summary, that's the next thing. Making your profile like a mini landing page is probably the best way to, I'd say, to to angle it.
Mark Evans: What are the biggest mistakes that people make when they're trying to build a personal brand on LinkedIn?
Michelle Griffin: Okay. Well, first of all, they're not clearly defined. And I'm talking about let me come from the context of, you know, building it for professional or, you know, business opportunities, not just, look at me. I'm a million followers, and, you know, that's it. It's it's tied to knowing who you are, just like who I am, how I'm how I'm gonna stand out in one lane.
I see too many people having these headlines that have all these keyword stuff, and I have no idea what they do. Come out in one lane for one person with one problem you solve for the most part so people can get that repetition. Repetition. Oh, Oh, here's who this is. Here's who this is.
Probably one of the first things. And then people, you know, don't just commune give. It's a giving platform. You know? If you're gonna come out, you can't just post and ghost as they say.
Start I have a my, post is all about building your community, build your brand again. Get that community in place to help you. I probably think, you know, they just don't give it enough time. It's a long game. It really is.
I mean, when I say long, I don't mean it's gonna take years. I started getting out on LinkedIn all this year consistently every single day. You probably see me right about it. Because I was struggling. I was being inconsistent.
And I gave myself a big bold goal of posting every single day. And probably within thirty days, I saw results. Like, you know, I was asked to be on a podcast, to speak on a live summit. You know, just it just started happening fast. Because when you show up and be consistent in value, people are gonna know they're you're there to help them.
And and that goes huge on LinkedIn. LinkedIn's not the place it was when it first started, for sure.
Mark Evans: For sure. I I've been active on LinkedIn probably for two years, and I have noticed it. One of the things that I do struggle with when it comes to LinkedIn is is the algorithm because I don't understand it. One day, I'm bell the ball, and the next day, no one wants to ask me to dance. And there's no engagement, no comments.
You know, when you're trying to build a personal brand, when you post content, when you you make comments, there's a lot of validation that comes from, oh, look how many views my post got. Look how many video views I got. But what do you advise people when there is little or no engagement and they feel discouraged and their attempts to build a personal brand seemingly aren't paying off or they're not attracting the spotlight. What's your advice to them when that happens?
Michelle Griffin: Oh, I get it. It's I think it affects everyone. It's unless you're some of the unicorns on LinkedIn. But, the link the algorithm is going through some major changes. My LinkedIn content manager, you know, was telling me that, like, last month.
I would say, you cannot you know, like, you can't just put your toe in the water and then, you know, it's too cold. I'm walking away. Stay in the long game. As you know, there's 800,000,000 people on LinkedIn. 97%, they say probably, I bet it's 95% now post.
So, you know, you're still in good numbers, and people are seeing you. A lot of people are scared to react. A lot of people are scared to take that first step. So people are still seeing you. I cannot tell you how many times I've been DMed with people who wanted to, you know, get a discovery call or whatever, book a call, and they're like, I follow your content.
I really like it. And I I never knew that. They never engaged. I never knew it. So my thing is people are seeing.
And then the thing is I was in kindergarten, I remember when I first started kindergarten, my mom I came home upset because I felt I told my mom I didn't have any friends or something. And she said, Michelle, to be a friend to have a friend, you have to be a friend. Okay? And I never forgot that. So it's like on LinkedIn.
If you want to get out there, start giving, giving, giving. The law of reciprocity is so powerful here. You know? Just start reaching out to more people. Give more than you can expect to get.
It will come back. I promise you. When I got back on LinkedIn this year consistently, I I switched industries. You know, I left my job in the insurance and legal industry, professional services to come and, you know, start fresh, and and I started fresh almost. Started over, and it's been phenomenal just reaching out and being a a person.
Now I know that sounds easier said than done, but just take 10 steps and a few baby steps. Reach out to 10 people a day and just comment. You know? Take the baby steps, and it it'll just build in time like compound interest.
Mark Evans: I wrote a post this morning titled, Content as an Obligation. It's sort of an acronym, sort of the the play on on SaaS and PaaS and all those things that we talk about in the b to b SaaS world. And it's the idea that a lot of people feel like it's a chore or a duty to post content, and it's not. I mean, it should be a joy. It should give you satisfaction.
And I'm wondering from your perspective, what are the questions that someone should ask, or what are the things they should think about before posting content on LinkedIn?
Michelle Griffin: Well, first of all, I you should know. If it's a chore for you, then we have to reassess. Because if it's, you know, pulling tea, we don't want that. You know? I love being on LinkedIn every day because I built a community of people, of clients, collaborators.
I just love waking up and opening up and seeing it. So are you posting about something that people really resonate with? Are you posting about something that's more about you and not about others? If you're just getting on LinkedIn, give a lot of value and tips and help people. Sprinkle in your story too.
I mean, without a doubt, they need to get to know you, but, lead with others first. You know, give a reason to read your stuff. I think that's where a lot of people go wrong, or it starts small. Make your content digestible nuggets. I know some people feel compelled that they have to write a book.
No. We're busy. Take the friction out of it. Make it super easy. So just be sure.
Are you standing out and doing consistently the same thing? It'll get traction, you know, the same topic to help the people who have that problem you're trying to solve. So I I think that should be and then if it's not a chore, reassess. Now content every day, do I recommend that? No.
That's an obligation I put on me. But when it comes to next year, three day maybe three days, five days. How many days a week do you post, Mark?
Mark Evans: Four to five days a week. Okay. I I would add as a caveat that I was a reporter for fifteen years. I'm a professional writer by training, so writing to me comes easy. And I say that in quotation marks because writing is not easy.
I flex my muscle, and I've trained this muscle for a long time. But for lot of people, it's not natural. Writing content is not a natural thing. It's hard.
Michelle Griffin: And it's true. And can I give you the story? Because so last year when I was, you know, left my job in 01/31/2020, I remember that date well. So I know, like, I know I need to go on LinkedIn, and I was doing all the things, commenting, connecting. You know, I had very active there, but I knew I wasn't consistent.
And it bugged me. Like, how in the world are these people finding stuff to post every day? Like, it was the world's biggest question I couldn't answer. Like, what the heck? It was just unbeknownst to me.
So here's the thing. The the gift of getting out there and putting yourself out there and starting to post regularly, the ideas start flowing. It's the weirdest thing. And it and one just for me. I talked to many people.
They said, you know, getting out there, you start getting ideas. You'll have conversations. You'll think, oh, that could be a post. Right? You just start getting the lay of the land, so to speak.
Was that, like, how it was for you? Or maybe you're not a good person to ask because as you said, you're used to writing content quickly.
Mark Evans: No. It's one of the questions I did wanna ask you in terms of how do you generate ideas. And I will tell you that one of the best ways is to read other people's content and react to their point of view or sometimes you an idea sparks. And here's the thing. This is a trick that I do or or a hack of sorts.
I'll be writing a a comment. It's a post that resonated for whatever reason. I'm writing a comment, and then I say to myself, this is a great post. So I'll I'll leave the comment. I'll cut and paste, put it into another document.
Mhmm. And then I've got a nugget of an idea for for my own post on the same topic. I'm not I'm not gonna copy their content, but that's one of the ways to do it. And and the other thing I would suggest, and you probably do the same thing, is is when you come across content ideas, you gotta capture them. You gotta write them down.
You gotta go onto your your iPhone or a piece of paper. Whatever it takes, don't let them evaporate because once they're gone, they're usually gone.
Michelle Griffin: Oh, in the split second. Yeah. My iPhone notes, page content ideas is huge. One of the other things too, like, I'm at the end of my, you know, three sixty five, and it's it's a lot. And, so what I've done every year, it's no there's no harm, no shame in repurposing.
Now I don't say recycle. Repurposing your content. So every every post I make is that I I take it by the date, and I cop copy that into a Google Docs and date it by day and very simple. And then by month. I mean, I know some people put it in, you know, Notion and all the other complicated things.
Mine's pretty easy. But, I'll go there's days I'll go back, and I use Shield app too, and just say, what are the where's something that really resonates? I'm stuck today in addition to your content idea because I do that too. And I'll just take a really good post or maybe a nugget from a post. Because here's the thing.
I was posting way too long earlier in the year. And then just pull out a nugget, rewrite it in a different way, and that just goes it just helps. I mean, I've had some stuff take off even more that way or some stuff that was maybe even lukewarm at the beginning because, you know, algorithm isn't our friend every day, and then it takes off. So no harm in taking your stuff several months out. You know?
Only a few percentage of people see our stuff. And even that, do you even remember what you posted two days ago, hardly? I mean don't. I don't. So, anyway, that's another tip to to use when you're stuck.
Mark Evans: One final question and picking up on something you said earlier, and that is about Clubhouse, the social media platform that was all the rage and then disappeared. And I'm curious about your thoughts on Clubhouse as a platform for businesses looking to connect with their audiences. Is there any value there? And do you think that many people and companies have prematurely abandoned Clubhouse?
Michelle Griffin: Yeah. Okay. So Clubhouse was great. You know, the fear of FOMO got it out. You know, it was the shiny object du jour.
I think I got in December. January started a a weekly show on personal branding mastery, and now I've flipped it into just modding. Yeah. It was great. Okay.
Here's the thing. Everyone left. Everyone came to it then seemed to have left it, but there's millions of people still there. I show up every week just in that, that room. But every single time I mod that room, I meet people from all over the world.
And I bring them to LinkedIn, which I did all along, and I form connections. Now some just become amazing connections. Some have become clients, collaborators. That social audio is a perfect way to build connection. You know, a lot of us are scared of video.
Lot of us were apprehensive about getting video. Well, what's the next best way between written and video is social audio. You know? We're not I think the fear is the the visual. So getting on audio and I know there's some people still introverted on audio, but it's a it's a great way to connection is everything.
And so I would try it. Okay. So do you have to host your room? No. Go find targeted niche rooms where you try it out, where your ideal audience is, and just, you know, be a participant.
Now don't just listen. Raise your hand and go put an insight in. Ask a question. They're very helpful and nice on, Clubhouse for the most part like they are on LinkedIn. So I still use it, not as much, but it's definitely a targeted way to to build relationships.
Mark Evans: Thanks for all the great insight, Michelle. Where can people learn more about you, your services, and your podcast?
Michelle Griffin: Well, thank you so much for asking. It was a pleasure to be here. So yeah. So, of course, connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm at Michelle b as in brand, Griffin.
Michelle b Griffin. Of course, I'd love to meet you. You can check out my website, which is Michelle b Griffin, as in brand, dot com. And you can, I also have a lot of LinkedIn goodies on my, profile where you can get, like, some Canva templates and things like that? And, also, my podcast is the business of you.
Fun fact, it started as my LinkedIn live show, and it's now a podcast, another way to content, create and repurpose. But that's on all the major platforms now. So it's all about helping expert entrepreneurs, expertise, service providers build their personal brand to grow their business. So I appreciate it, Mark. It's been a pleasure.
Mark Evans: Well, thanks for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribe by iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. If you'd like to learn more about how I help b to b SaaS companies as a fractional CMO, consultant, and adviser, send an email to Mark@MarketingSpark.co or connect with me on LinkedIn. I'll talk to you next time.
