For many B2B SaaS companies, conversations are the ultimate success metric.
When customers directly engage with you, relationships are established and, as important, the sales journey is jump-started.
On this episode of Marketing Spark, Mark Kilens, Drfit's VP of Content & Community, talks about how conversation marketing gained momentum last year at a time when conferences disappeared.
Drift pioneered conversation marketing with the introduction of an AI-powered chatbot that attempts to engage, understand and recommend solutions.
Mark and I also talk about Drift's approach to content marketing, the importance of content distribution, and some of the metrics used to assess content marketing success.
Auto-generated transcript. Speaker names, spelling, and punctuation may be slightly off.
Mark Evans: Hi. It's Mark Evans, and you're listening to Marketing Spark, podcast that features conversations with marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches. As a b to b SaaS marketer, I'm surrounded by customer metrics, MQLs, SQL, conversion ratios, and click through rates. At the end of the day, I'm a big believer in conversations. A lot of business happens because you've connected with customers about their needs, interests, and goals. When that happens, sales are a lot easier and faster. On today's podcast, I'm talking with Mark Killins, VP content and community at Drift, the pioneer and leader in conversational marketing. Welcome to Marketing Spark, Mark.
Mark Killins: Thank you, Mark. Great to be with you today.
Mark Evans: Let's start by defining conversational marketing. What is it? What makes it so effective?
Mark Killins: Yeah. Start at the top. I mean, conversational marketing was something that Drift created back in 2016. It it's been around for a long time and has really gained a lot of traction. Conversational marketing allows you to engage instantly in a very hyper personalized way with your customers and buyers to ultimately create more pipeline and accelerate revenue. The key to it, though, is it's in service of creating a better buying experience, a better digital buying experience with that notion of, like, personalized messaging, personalized help, personalized assistance, if you will, to guide you guide you through the buying process.
Mark Evans: So how does conversational marketing happen? I mean, obviously, are chatbots. There are conversations, believe it or not, with real people. Maybe you can define the different ways that conversational marketing happens in the wild.
Mark Killins: It's another good question. I mean, we we took a very hard look at what is the structure of a conversation, and we boiled it down to three things. And these three things really guide a lot of what how a lot of how we build product at Drift, how we teach people to use conversational marketing and sales. What we call this is the conversational framework, and it's three pieces. Engage, understand, recommend. So how do you engage one of your buyers or customers, like I said, in a very relevant contextual personalized way when they come to your website. We can we can unpack that if you want. How do you then understand a bit more about them? In the traditional sense of marketing, Mark, it's it's like qualification, right, or disqualification. But it's really understanding more about their intent, their motivations, who they are, how are they feeling that day, all of those kinda signals. And you, at the same time, through a conversation, either with a chatbot, an AI, you know, virtual assistant, or another human being, live chat, are helping maybe them understand a bit more about your business or what you can offer them in that moment. Just like a natural natural conversation, you know, would would occur. And then there's ultimately, like, a recommendation. And there might be multiple recommendations through a conversation, but in a lot of these interactions with conversational marketing, they don't last too too long. So the the recommendation typically is at the end of the conversation, at least, you know, it's it's like from a marketing perspective, it's like, oh, a call to action, if you will. It's like, what's the next best action we can help this person who's visiting our website, looking at something? What's the next best action? Is it to to maybe go to someone on the sales team? Is it some more marketing type content? Is it a is
Mark Evans: it a
Mark Killins: support or service type inquiry? How can we recommend and guide them to the next best thing? So if you think about it, just engage, understand, recommend the power in that framework. That's how that's the genesis of all things conversational marketing and sales.
Mark Evans: I love that framework. I love the simplicity and the fact that it really identifies the key pillars when it comes to the customer journey. And I'd like to circle back a little bit to engage because in my business, I position myself as someone who helps b to b SaaS companies attract and engage. But the reality is engaging consumers these days is extremely hard. I mean, there there's a study that suggests that they see a 100,000 words or audio or ads or social media a day. So there's so much information coming at them that for a marketer, it's a huge challenge trying to get someone to stop even for a short period of time. Can you elaborate on the link between conversational marketing and engage? Now how do they work together? How do they allow companies to really pull in a customer so you can start a conversation and get them down the buyer's journey?
Mark Killins: I mean, to me, like, in the way we think about it at Drift, marketing these days is a function of building a relationship and building a strong trust bond, if you will. Like, like, it's I think of it almost as, a chain. Right? There's links in a chain, and what marketers should be trying to do is is add more links to that trust chain. Right? And it's it's it's it's a sensitive chain. Right? It can break it almost any time with really one bad engagement or interaction. So from an engagement standpoint, what conversational marketing tries to do is it tries to not only empower the marketer and the salesperson, but the visitor to give them the power to to give them the power of the the the buying process that they wanna go through. Right? Like, they most people and some of this comes from our state of conversational marketing survey that we'll talk, I'm sure, more about. Some of this comes from Gartner or Forrester. There's many more people these days that really don't wanna talk to sales per se. You know, marketing and sales are some of the least trusted, you know, jobs, right, out there. So it's even more important to the comment I made just a minute ago, like, about the trust chain and how you build that. So from an engagement standpoint, it's like, how do you make that experience? Typically, the digital side of the experience, feel as relevant and as helpful to each buyer? So from a marketer's perspective, it's flipping the idea of your website to be very buyer centric and and understand who's coming to the website. Conversation marketing helps you understand who comes to the website, where are they coming from, and where are they in the purchase journey, the the the buying journey or the or the customer experience journey, however you wanna frame it. So where are they in that, and then what page are they on? So if you take those three those technically four things, but it's the who, the where, and the what, that's gonna help you then start to shape out how do you best engage with this person. But then a second thing has to happen as well. What what's what our what our most successful customers do, customers like Adobe, Okta, etcetera, they also then make sure that when one of those visitors comes to the website that we know is either in market or is out of market but qualified, but might not be showing really, really high levels of intent, they're still gonna notify the sales owner, the account owner at the company of that visitor, of that visit. And and it's on then the salesperson to be enabled to know what to do in that situation. If they're free, should they try to kinda jump into that, you know, interaction and engagement and and reach out in a really human personalized way? Should they follow-up the next day? Should they follow-up in five minutes? So it's doing not only the front end change management of of what they experience on the website from an engagement standpoint, but it's also making sure the back end workflows of how you get your sales team now involved in these conversations. That's that's the key mark. It's both sides of that coin.
Mark Evans: The other angle that I want to ask you about is the fact that I think it's Gartner suggests that a customer has done about it's about 70 way 70% down the path, down the buyer's path before they even touch a company. And they've done their research. They've looked at other websites. They've looked at, you know, analyst research. They've checked out Capterra or g two. So they they're armed with a lot of information. So by the time they hit the website, they're looking for something else or looking for some they're looking for engagement or something personal and relevant. I guess that's where conversational marketing can really fill the gap, that final 30% that you need a customer to get before they make the purchase.
Mark Killins: You make a great point. I I say it like this. Conversational marketing and sales helps the empowered buyer buy.
Mark Evans: In a nutshell, that's a great way to explain the experience for sure.
Mark Killins: 100%.
Mark Evans: Before we move on, I did wanna ask you a little bit about Drift. I mean, this is a company that has had tremendous growth, enjoys a very high profile. As I said off the top, they're the pioneers in conversational marketing. How did it get to where it is today? Like, what was that moment where the company realized that conversational marketing was the path to success? And provide a little bit like, how did the company start? What was the original mandate?
Mark Killins: Yeah. No. The the company started way back in, 2014, you know, 2015. That was those are the founding years. David Cancel and Elias Torres, you know, that's that's when they started it. It was not originally conceived as, like, oh, conversational marketing. What what David and Elias, they're brilliant in many things, but what they're so good at is obsessing over learning from the customer. And we actually have a leadership principle, one of our eight at Drift that is that is called put the customer at the center of everything you do. So they just take from a product development standpoint. So first, like, product market fit, then eventually, like, you know, go to market fit. But if you talk about product market fit, they take this lens of, like, let's learn through quick feedback loops from customers using these different ideas we're spinning up and and turning into something usable from from a software standpoint and see what sticks. So they went through a few iterations. It started as almost like an HR thing at one point. There was, like, an annotate tool for, like, your iPhone app. There's a little bit called annotate, I think. I used it for a little bit. Then they they started to realize that messaging. Like so what they're also really great at and what we do at Drift is we look at the trends that are out that are outside of almost anyone's control. It's like, what's changed in human behavior? What's changed in how we buy, how we live, etcetera? And how do then do those things apply in the context of b to b? So there were some massive trends happening. Right? The rise of mobile. That's been a trend over the last fifteen years. Mhmm. The rise of mobile really then finally allowed the rise of messaging to occur. I mean, I was using AOL instant messaging, Mark. You know, I'm sure you'd use that, how you're smiling, way back in the day. But, like, it wasn't really in a in a everyday way you could use it. You had go to your computer, sit down. Like, it was, you know, it it had to be at your house because of mobile because then messaging platforms and technology and tools were built on top of mobile. It's like, wait a minute. There's a whole new communication paradigm. So that's almost the genesis of, like, conversational marketing and sales where it's like, everything now is becoming that much more conversational through the power of these digital technologies and digital platforms, and now businesses need to adapt to that because that's how humans are communicating. So that was really the starting point. I'll pause there,
Mark Evans: Drift alongside Heinz Marketing did a survey that talked to more than 500 marketers for their insights on conversational marketing. Talk about the highlights, some of the things that marketers told you, some of the things that were were surprising when you talked to these 500 marketers.
Mark Killins: One of the one of the things that we've seen and we've done this survey now for three years. So we actually have, you know, three years of of data. It's really interesting to see how it's trending in these different directions. We're seeing a more and more we're seeing more and more companies adopt conversational marketing solutions, number one.
Mark Evans: Right.
Mark Killins: And I really think this this pandemic that we've had to live through, unfortunately, was a trigger point trigger event for more and more businesses to use something like conversational marketing and sales because they almost had, like, no choice to. So one of the stats was, we asked a question around AI powered conversational marketing, making you more accessible and more invaluable than ever before. How do you feel about that? 82%, four to five people are finding, you know, that type of solution, an AI powered conversational marketing solution to be very valuable to their sales and marketing strategy. Right? So that's, like that's pretty significant. That's gone up a decent amount. And what's also interesting, we talked we talked about engagement. Like, about 45% of the people surveyed and this was, like, 500 people in this last latest survey. It's a pretty big sample size. Their engagement rates increased over the last eighteen months in pen in the pandemic. So, like, so more people are engaging through this digital buying experience. So how do you personalize this digital buying experience? How do you make your how do you make your, marketing and sales funnel, if you will, more buyer centric? What we're seeing through this data is more and more people are adapting conversational marketing and then conversational selling to do just that. And what's interesting is also is, like, buyer's expectations. So we ask questions to this audience about, like, the actual solution, the technology, those things, but then how do you buy as b two b buyers? So we looked at kind of both sides of this coin. And the expectations around quick and personalized experiences from these b two b buyers, mostly managers, directors, and above, those experiences and and whatnot have grown by 26%. Meaning, they expect more of them by 26%, year over year. And an immediate response so when you're actually reaching out to a vendor, to your point on the 70% mark, when you're finally ready to talk to a vendor, this is the last interesting stat that I'll share right now, the immediate response has grown 64% year over year. So more and more of these b to b buyers and decision makers are expecting immediacy, instant response, when it comes to reaching out to a vendor. And if you don't have that, guess what's gonna happen most likely? They're gonna probably go to one of your competitors, or they'll look the other way. Right? Attention spans to your point.
Mark Evans: I don't know if you asked this question, but I am curious about the disappearance of conferences and the impact that it had on conversational marketing. When you think about it, many b two b companies spent fifty, sixty, 70% of their marketing budgets going to conferences. Why? Because they wanted to have conversations with prospects and customers. It was the way that it was an easy way for marketers to drive MQLs. The sales guys could nurture leads, connect with customers, and drive loyalty and as important upsells. So what do you think the impact or the correlation was between the decline in conferences, and they may come back soon or not, and the rise in conversational marketing?
Mark Killins: It's a great question. You know, we've pivoted all of our events to be virtual. We're gonna be back in person finally next year. But what we've done is we've integrated with some systems like On twenty four, another upcoming event platform called Goldcast, and put the conversational experience in front of that. So there's there's, like you can make the actual event experience more conversational. But but before you even get them to the event, what marketers have had to do is pivot their channel mix. To your point, like, an event is kinda like a channel. Right? You can that's where you can reach people. Now the channels are gonna be much or have been, excuse me, much more, like, digital based. So we see our customers using conversational marketing within their paid search and social strategy, within their organic, you know, search strategy, within their email strategy. Those are some great ways you can pair up because you know where the visitor's coming from. You know they're coming from organic search. You know they're coming from an email. You know they're coming from exact paid ad. And then you can serve up this really contextually rich conversational experience on your website page based off of, again, like we said in the beginning of this podcast, who is coming to the who's coming to that page? Where are they coming from? Email, paid ad, organic, etcetera. And then what are they engaging with? In this case, your questions around they're engaging with an event. Are they looking to sign up for the event? Are they looking to get more information about it? Are they looking for the recording? You can make it super easy to help them find and do exactly what they're looking for with that event. And then furthermore, but the beauty of all this stuff is your sales team. We've empowered them the sellers to say, hey. Here's all of the people that you normally would have seen at this event. Coming to our website, signing up for the event, attending the event, here's what they did during the event, and giving them, again, those kind of behavior signals or signals of intent and being able to still continue the buying help help the buyer buy through those through those data points versus the in person piece. I mean so I think I think it's it's a combination of both in the future, but it's it's really making sure that you can provide people we keep keep going back to this real time idea, Mark, the real time insights into what your buyers are doing.
Mark Evans: But I think the question I was asking was that when in person events disappeared, conversations disappeared. Opportunities to have relevant contextual real time conversation disappeared. And I guess the answer that I'm looking for, did conversational marketing fill the gap? Companies need those interactions. They need conversations. And and did did they turn to conversational marketing last year?
Mark Killins: Well, I I I think they did turn to conversational marketing. That's what the that the study said. But you you don't you don't as a marketer, you don't turn to the solution. You follow the buyer. The buyers shifted their shifted how they engage with companies. Instead of going to these events, like I was saying, they shifted to digital channels, digital virtual events, and and whatnot. And you can use conversational marketing in those channels with those channels to create better engagement, create better experiences. So the short of the answer is a 100% yes. But I think the best companies and now what most companies are doing is saying, oh, well, where have my buyers gone, you know, because there's no events, and how can I meet them where they are with conversational marketing?
Mark Evans: Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about Drift's approach to content marketing. As the VP of content and community, I'm sure you got a lot to say. First, I'm interested in how Drift's content marketing or its approach to content marketing has evolved over the past eighteen months. To me, content has always been king, but there has been no doubt that content has really stepped up as things like conferences haven't happened. Can you provide a little bit of context in terms of how Drift's approach to content has changed?
Mark Killins: Yeah. It's it's a timely question because I actually posted something today on LinkedIn, today being the October. I think it's actually October 27 for those interested in when we recorded this. But, I posted something on LinkedIn that comes from an we we love research, original research at Drift. We find it very insightful. So we did a another, survey to about a 100 I think it a 115, marketing leaders. The vast majority of those people being director and above b to b marketing leaders. So VP, CMOs, director level. And the number one most important thing they say is is they say in the next five years that they're, like, really, you know, focused on is content marketing. 53% said that. So half of them said. And they've actually found that content marketing as it relates to, like, pipeline generation and and the impact on it went from, like, number seven on the list last year to this year when we did the survey. It was number one. So, again, I think it's this this event that happened with this pandemic, and it's made people realize, well, we need to be more helpful than ever on the digital side of things. We need to stand out somehow. We can't reach people in person. We can't go to the events. We can't go to the dinners. We can't do these field events. We can't do all these things. So how are we gonna really, really stand out? And honestly, content marketing is a differentiator for the brand. So we we just doubled down on it. We were always very heavy in the content marketing space. You know, I have a deep background in content. I was at HubSpot for eight and a half years. So I I know content pretty well. And Drift also started their brand as as a it's a very powerful from a very, like, powerful content marketing standpoint. What what I mean by that is early days what Drift did, David Cancel and and and in this case, Dave Gearhart started what I call a great cornerstone content asset in the form of a podcast. It's named Seeking Wisdom. And that that was really one of the ways that also helped us not only grow the Drift brand and and make it stand out and make it unique, but it also helps bring conversational marketing to the world through that podcast. You know, we wrote a book on the category, conversational marketing. There's a whole book on it. We're best selling, business book on it. We wrote many books. This won't scale as an example. All these different dozens of different ways of of how to do marketing that doesn't technically scale but has really strong ROI. So I think our content game's always been strong. Now it's about, though, really making sure you're smart with your content and and understanding the spend to impact of your content. So understanding, you know, all this time and money and effort you're putting into your content, how is it really turning into the the right the right leads, but really the right pipeline for your business, and how are you using content more and more than ever before to drive customer success? So we have a full life cycle, content team here, Mark, and we have three overall content teams, four maybe, but three that focus on the content across the entire customer experience, so pre and post. So that's another thing I think businesses have started to shift to as well during the pandemic. How do you think how do make sure the content is consistent across all the touch points?
Mark Evans: What has surprised you and Drift in terms of how and where people are consuming content? LinkedIn, for example, has emerged as a great place to to get insight from lots of different kinds of people. But are there other platforms or other ways in which content has been delivered that caught you by surprised or emerged faster than you expected?
Mark Killins: To me, live streaming is super interesting. I mean, a lot of these platforms have added live streaming. Right? Like LinkedIn Live, Instagram. I mean, everyone now has a live streaming component, and a lot of that has has been born out of the gaming space. Now there's, like, live stream, like, online shopping that's taken from, like, the TV world. Right? Like, the almost, like, the live infomercial, if you will. The live component of content is super fascinating. And a lot of people think, well, like, is, like, is a webinar content? I'm like, heck. Yeah. It is. That's what that is content. Like, an event at the end of the day is two things. It's, like, great content. Hopefully, it's great content. And it's it's a networking experience. Right? If it's if it's more in person. Right? But, like, you know, from a virtual standpoint, your virtual event over the last eighteen months really has hinged on your ability to create differentiated and highly valuable content for the audience. So that's another reason why I think everyone is doubling down on this and realizing if we did do this right and we really have a unique brand voice, we have a unique point of view in the market, we we have some thought leadership. It doesn't have to be crazy thought leadership, but we have something that is uniquely different. We can use this as a competitive advantage for our business, and we can really, like, use this not only across marketing, but in sales and CS to add additional value to the actual product we sell. And you can charge a premium then. Right? And and you're a premium brand in that case. And that's where content has this effect, I think.
Mark Evans: On one of my recent podcasts, I talked to Ross Simmons. He's a very well known b to b content marketer. The thing that he talks about is not just content production, but distribution and repurposing content to maximize ROI. Mhmm. What is Drift's approach to those two content pillars?
Mark Killins: You have to. I actually have a whole framework called, like, the content repurposing framework. Literally, I I have this completely laid out for my team. We use it all the time. It's four different r's. It's reuse, refresh, repackage, reposition. Mhmm. So reuse, refresh, repackage, reposition. All of your content assets, especially your corner cornerstone content assets. And I there's there's technically, in my opinion, five, maybe six cornerstone content assets that at least we definitely create at Drift. We take that into consideration. You know, we do quarterly planning at Drift. We have this notion of integrated campaigns that we run, really focused on the audience, the trigger event, what are the goals of the campaign, and then the high the highest level messaging. And then we map out offers by channel to get that content, to get that in that, great information out into the market. So so Ross' point and your point is extremely important. Right? It's like, yeah. You can plan your content. You can produce your content. But if you don't think about promoting your content with deep collaboration with your demand gen or, in our case, revenue marketing team, you're missing a significant part of the content marketing game. So, yeah, we have these four r's, and and we use it all the time. It's it's it's how you atomize. We kinda call it the solar system strategy. Absolutely.
Mark Evans: Here's a tough question. How does Drift quantify the success of content marketing? Because, obviously, there's there's the standard KPIs and metrics that marketers and sales teams use. And then there's this whole dark social, phenomenon that a lot of people are talking about. So when you look at the success of your content marketing efforts, how do you tell whether you're being super successful? How do you tell what's do what you're doing well and what's not working? What are the different elements that you look at?
Mark Killins: It's a really good question. It's it's something that's asked a lot. There's two ways at the highest level to think about it, engagement and pipeline. And then what you look in the middle, and I can get the details of of all of these things, but I'll just keep it simple to start with. Engagement and pipeline. And what's in the middle of those two things is how many of those engagements, and an engagement could be a download of a of a book, a website session, a social media engagement. We have, like, literally, I think, 80 or 90 different types of engagements that we measure across our content and community team. How many of those engagements and some of them you can't identify here, but how many of those engagements that you can identify fit into your ideal customer profile? Basically, are a quality engagement. So it's it then you get into, like, the nuance of, like, well, what type of model are you using? First touch, last touch, multi touch attribution. Have a multi touch attribution model that looks like that looks at a more tops down view of that model. We also have a bottoms up model. But ours right now is more multi touch attribution. There's no perfect way to go with that to your point. Like, you know, you just gotta pick one and stick with it for a little bit and figure it out. But the other thing that I think content marketers fail to measure when it comes from the content from a from a content standpoint is how is your sales team and CS team using your content? Mhmm. So we have a solution called Highspot. And we use and so we actually see, like, on a weekly basis, we have about 3,000 engagements with our content from our sales and CS team members in Highspot. That's, like, 12,000 a month. That's awesome. That means they're using this content to help people buy and and learn more about Drift and, like, be successful with Drift. And, ultimately, what you want to see, you know, is is your engagements growing quarter over quarter, year over year. And then, therefore, if you have your revenue demand stuff dialed in enough, that should follow suit in many ways.
Mark Evans: A final question. David Counsell obviously has a very high profile, and he creates a lot of great content, including the podcast, as you mentioned. How does Drift leverage David? How does he manage his time in terms of creating high value content at a time when, obviously, he's he has other priorities and he's stretched in different directions? You know, what's your strategy, your content strategy when it comes to David?
Mark Killins: Dave I mean, David, in many ways, is like the quasi chief marketing officer, if you will. Right? Any CEO, any great CEO should be like the chief salesperson, the chief marketing officer. You know what mean? He's like, they're selling right? They're selling the business. So we do as much as we can to support him in that endeavor. So just as an example, there's a big web summit happening in Portugal, early November, next week it is. He's gonna be speaking on that, right, at that. So if my team helped him and some someone on our communications team build his presentation. And then what are we gonna do with that? We're gonna repurpose it. Right. We're gonna repackage it. Right? So it's like so that's an example. Right? We have someone who does ghostwriting to help him take his ideas and really, scale them out. Right? So I think that's really important. Many companies do that. If you don't do that for your executives now, I think you should a 100% have someone that helps them write. They have amazing ideas. They're brilliant people in many ways, and and there's something to be said that a content marketer's job, it might not be the best term, but you're almost acting as a broker. Right? You're you're you're helping take someone's ideas and wisdom and knowledge and experiences and share them with someone else. That's why I see it not just with David, but Elias. Elias has this American Dream podcast and American Dream newsletter. I see that with Katie, our CMO. I see it with anyone who doesn't even have to be executive level. People at Drift contribute to our content, and our customers contribute to our content all the time. That's what a great content marketer does. They actually don't create a lot of the original content. They help in the facilitation of bringing those other people along and and helping them share what they know and getting into the right hands.
Mark Evans: One tactical question when it comes to pulling content out of an executive like David. Is it a matter of sitting down with him for half an hour or an hour and saying, what are you thinking? What are your big ideas? What kind of opinions do you have? Where do you think the industry is going? And simply recording his conversations and then repackaging them in a blog post or an ebook or some kind of content asset. Is it as simple as that? They tell you what they wanna say, and they say it, so you just package it up properly. Is that is that a simple way of of doing things? One way of doing things?
Mark Killins: It can be. What we found to be even more successful, and I've seen this at, you know, both Drift and HubSpot, is get give them something to react to. Right. Right? And and then you can ask them some questions about that, but, like, give them something to react to. And then maybe you have come back with something else then, and then, like, that's the basis for, like, the content and the questions and and what they're gonna share with you. But that's the tactical thing, I think. You know, give them something. And, also, I mean, in our case, like, we're really leaning hard into the whole whole conversational space, conversational marketing sales, conversational commerce even. And the the leader of the business, you know, is gonna have to be the person who really sells the vision, right, and sells what makes your company uniquely different. So, like, how do you then organize that within a campaign across your marketing team? So our tactical thing also is, like, have a campaign. We use briefs, have a campaign level brief that then can take all the stuff that your executives are saying, in our case, David, and and use it across these different channels. So, like, you got again, to your point about promotion, think about the whole journey in what you're doing with your executive. Don't think just LinkedIn. Yeah. He's got LinkedIn strategy. He does things on Twitter. But, like, you know, he's got a he's got a newsletter that we do every every Saturday called the one thing. We've branded that. You know, we we use a lot of his seeking wisdom podcast content still. So it's like, I I think you gotta take you're gonna be tactical in how you approach it, but you also have to, like, create a plan.
Mark Evans: Final question. Where can people learn more about you and Drift?
Mark Killins: I mean, drift.com drift.com. A Drift Insider, we like to think of it as, like, the number one place marketers and salespeople can go to learn. It's a free community. We have a ton of almost everything's, you know, not gated. You gotta sign up for an account to get some of our more exclusive, content, some of our more, you know, in-depth courses and classes, but it's all free. Drift insider, drift.com/insider. And then, yeah, you could just follow me on LinkedIn, Twitter. You can text me. I got my phone number, (978) 226-6965. And you can't call that number. It's only for texting, conversations after all, right, and messaging. But shoot me a text. Happy to talk to you.
Mark Evans: Thanks to everyone for listening to another episode of marketing spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, please leave a review, subscribe via iTunes and Spotify, or your favorite podcast app, and share via social media. To learn more about how I help b to b SaaS companies as a fractional CMO, strategic adviser, and coach, send an email to Mark@MarketingSpark.co, or connect with me on LinkedIn. I'll talk to you next time.