How to Work With B2B Content Marketing Freelancers

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Mark Evans: It's Mark Evans, and you're listening to Marketing Spark. Depending on your point of view, content is king. For many b to b marketers, content is a core element of the marketing mix to attract, educate, engage, and nurture prospects and customers. And over the past two years, it has been fascinating to see many companies embrace content marketing at a time when they couldn't attend or sponsor conferences. To get some perspective on the content marketing landscape and where it's heading, I'm excited to talk to Brooklyn Nash, a content marketing strategist and consultant. Welcome to Marketing Spark, Brooklyn.

Guest: Hey. Thanks for having me.

Mark Evans: As someone who has been immersed in the content marketing landscape and the content marketing business for many years, what's your take on what's been happening over the last couple of years as more and more brands try to embrace the value of content? Is it exceedingly crowded? Has it improved? Has it changed?

Guest: Yeah. I mean, it's definitely changed. I think time will tell how how it all shakes out. But I think it's what I've seen the last, like, eight years, I guess, now it's been. That's weird. Is kind of these, like, cycles of a major focus on one area of content marketing that becoming somewhat over crowded, and then a moment of differentiation where somebody tries something new. And I'm sure that's been happening long before I was working working in this field. So, I mean, when I first started on started out in content marketing, SEO was still top of top of priority list for pretty much anybody, not just in content marketing, but marketing in general as a way to get get audience in the door. Right? And it's still obviously a very important part of the marketing mix, top of funnel taken care of. But I think more and more, the marketers are starting to realize that you can get a lot more out of content than just driving somebody to your site with 17 ways to do x y z type article, and then try to convert them real quick with a a flashy CTA button or that free trial button up top. I think it I think folks are starting to focus on content that has more longevity and that that that is more grounded in where buyers are really coming from instead of just as a top of funnel mechanism for getting some some conversions that you can then feed down the funnel.

Mark Evans: There's a lot of different directions we could go there. One of them is SEO. As someone who has spent years writing and not so much focused on the SEO side, what's the balancing act between SEO optimized content, content written for SEO purposes, and content that's simply written to provide insight and value. It's a it's a bit of a balancing act because, obviously, you want your content to rank, but you don't wanna write for robots. You wanna write for people. What's your take on this?

Guest: Yeah. I think I think the key is in seeing SEO as for what it is. I mean, search engine optimization. It's a tactic for a specific channel of content marketing. It's not a replacement for a content marketing strategy. So you can you can form a a a well thought out content marketing strategy that, in many cases, includes a heavy focus on SEO, whether it's because you have a low ACV and and folks you want lots of folks coming in the door. You don't really need to qualify them all that much. They can sign up for a free trial, or it's a $7 entry point like Ahrefs, like, Ahrefs trial. Right? Or it's a freemium model, whatever it is. You just want lots of people coming in the door, so SEO makes a lot of sense. But it's it's still just gonna be a piece of the content marketing puzzle. Right? So I think the difference, going back to your question, like, the difference between the few is those those few options is you can you can create content that is primarily for SEO. Just try to put more thought into it than you would than maybe you would have, like, five, six, seven, eight years ago where the list of calls and the quick hit tips and all of that, like, worked really well. And then on the other side, you can create content that isn't necessarily for search because the volume isn't there or it's very far in the weeds, so people aren't really searching for it if it's a new area or it's topical, whatever it is. But then you can still take the steps to make sure that it's optimized so that if there is some search volume around it or if that takes up or if you come back to updating it a year from now, it's in a good place in terms of distribution where search is actually a viable distribution channel for it. So I don't know that it should ever be an either or, but it's more about looking at what the purpose is of the content you're creating and deciding where to put most of your effort.

Mark Evans: It's interesting when you talk about the format of content, and it has evolved. Those quick hits, that link bait type of content, in some respects, people have moved away from it. What are your thoughts on short form versus long term long form content? So you talk to people or you listen to people like Neil Patel, and they're advocating the value of long form content and the fact that it generates more traffic over time if especially if it's SEO optimized. But I often think of the fact that, yeah, long form content is great, but people have such short expansion spans. We've got ADD, and we're bouncing from one task to another. Is there a role for long form content? And if so, how do you how do you play it in the right way?

Guest: That's a good question because it's a hard one to answer. And I think, like, a good marketer, I'm gonna say it depends on what the type of content is. I think it so people hear long form content, I think I'm gonna I'm gonna assume most people are gonna think of, like, the 5,000 word deep dive pillar guide to lead generation, right, where it's a to z, every anything and everything you will know you need to know about lead generation, for example. I don't know that that is serving its purpose like it once was. You might be better served by splitting that out into a bunch of different articles and, like, glossary entries and treating it as a way to increase your own internal linking and kind of, like, spread wealth around how you're how you're using the content, let alone, like, re reusing it for that short form, like social post, email, that kind of thing. But that said, I think there is a place for long form content in the sense of we're talking about a fairly complex topic or dealing with a large amount of research, ideally original research, and we need a good amount of space to talk through this in in-depth. Right? And that's when I think, you know, a four or five, six, seven thousand word piece of content will will come into play. So again, it depends on the purpose of what you're trying to do. But there's, like, there's 350 word articles that are ranking for high volume keywords. You don't necessarily always need that 3,000 word pillar page to to rank for something anymore.

Mark Evans: One of the big issues facing companies that are looking to embrace, content marketing is whether they should do it by whether they should do it in house or whether they should use freelancers and contractors. There are pros and cons to both approaches. Chris Walker, a very well known high profile marketer on LinkedIn, suggest that content needs to be done in house because those are the people who truly understand the product and the customers. And there are people on the other side who suggest that if you hire the right freelancer with the right skill set, they can do what they need to do to immerse themselves in the topic and the target audiences. Mhmm. As a freelancer, someone who obviously provides contract services to many companies, especially b to b companies, which way works best? And at one point in time, does a company need to have an in house team versus outsource it?

Guest: I'm in this weird place where I am a a contractor and now building an agency, so I should be advocating for outsourcing work. But there's always gonna be outsource outsource work. Like, the marketing teams are always gonna need help with any number of things. Right? I will say I think I mostly I mean, I haven't I didn't hear what Chris said exactly, but I I agree with that sentiment. I can't tell you how many times over the last year, been on the discovery call with a potential client, and I say something along the lines of, I'd love to be able to help you with that, or I can't I could. I can help you with that Not to talk myself out of work, but I think you might be better served by getting a full time content marketing hire in place to work on that. And, typically, what I'm talking about when I say that is what what it sounds like Chris Walker was talking about is getting the right strategy in place, talking to customers, collaborating very closely with product marketing to understand the pain points and the solutions that they're dealing with, opening up conversations with partners. There's just so much that goes into content marketing before you publish a single piece. I think all of those pieces are much better suited for an in house role, and I tell potential clients that all the time. That said, I think you can with a a well formed content marketing strategy, you can be putting out a lot of content. Bottom of funnel, to help with sales enablement, top of funnel with at at scale and with volume around SEO or social or whatever it is. Right? So I think that that's where agencies and freelancers can come into play. But even then, try to aim towards engagements and contracts and projects where it's working more like a partnership and less like an outsourced task to be done. Right? Because I'm looking for that insight that you were talking about and that Chris was talking about it. I'm looking for the messaging. I'm looking value for the value props and the buyer personas and the pain points and the customer interviews to really understand what the audience is thinking and what they need and where the gaps are. So if I can come in as an outside vendor and understand those elements, I'm gonna put together much better content than if I get, like, a one page brief that says, here's the topic. Here's the audience, which is probably something vague and not super helpful and writing something up that way. I think aiming for that partnership as you work with outside contractors is gonna benefit you the most.

Mark Evans: Yeah. I completely agree with the idea of a partnership. In fact, as a fractional CMO, you know, one of the things that I advocate when working with entrepreneurs and CEOs is that you have to create a collaborative partnership. You have to be engaged. You have to be aligned and on the same page. Otherwise, it's not gonna work. So I I think that's definitely the right approach. A question more, guess, in tune with the services that you offer is how should brands hire freelance and contract writers? There are so many options out there. You can use Upwork or Fiverr or contract people via LinkedIn, and there's lots of other content marketing services and agencies. How should brands do their research? And once they've hired a writer like yourself, what are the keys to onboarding them successfully? Lot of questions.

Guest: I kinda have a couple of wrapped up in there. I I I think no matter what kind of relationship it is, I think referrals are always gonna be best. I think that's I don't know. I can't think of the specific stats around this, but, like, word-of-mouth is still the best channel for any firm marketing, b to b or b to c, and I think that's true for hiring freelancers and agencies as well. So I would just reach out to if you're a large company, reach out to other teams and see who they're working with, and if they have bandwidth and can move move over or to people in your network, ask who they're working with and ask for referrals. Post about it. If you have, you know, LinkedIn, Twitter, just start asking. There's a few sites that facilitate that too. You can look on, it's more oriented towards freelancers, but the activity there is peak freelance. Superpath, which was started by Jimmy Daly, who was at Animals, a large agency before. Well, not a large agency. Prominent agency, I should say. And that's very much more operating like a job board for both for full time and freelance content marketers. So I I would recommend those types of channels. Like, if you're going to go on a board, something like SuperPath where it's tailored, it's more community oriented, and it's less of a marketplace or job board like Upwork, I think you're gonna see better results that way.

Mark Evans: One topic I should have asked you about before launching to hire hiring a contract or freelance marketer is your take on gated versus ungated content. It is a huge topic within the content marketing community because brands are trying to do this balancing act between offering insight and value and collecting email addresses so they can follow-up with them via drip marketing campaigns and other other martech. Do you have any thoughts about what side of the fence that you play on or like and your thoughts about the role or the type of gated content that works these days given so many content options out there?

Guest: I mean, big picture, you're probably gonna have to ask somebody much smarter than me to form an opinion on this one just because there's so much that goes into it. Like, you need to like, this is a marketing operations and a and a almost a rev ops question and, like, a CRO question because the reason gated content is still a thing is because the vast majority of marketing teams are still beholden to their number one metric, MQLs. To get that, they need to get their content and then qualify them and then pass on. Right? But, ideally, we're moving to this space where sales and marketing and every other team can be much more collaborative, and marketing comes in as support at every stage of the funnel versus getting into MQL stage and then passing it off. But that's like I said, that's like you need to talk to marketing ops or a CRO or somebody. Right? All I know is my personal preference is and as a as a buyer is ungated as as a marketer. Like, some companies are putting together some really interesting pieces of content, and I would love to be able to access it, number one, easily, and number two at at all if they do the thing where you have to use your company email address. And then you're just wasting everybody's time because I'm putting I'm having to take the time to put my info in. I get interned as a lead even though I'm not a lead in any remote sense. So I I mean, I typically on the side of advising my clients to ungate. If you do need to still I still definitely understand the need for gating with how lead generation works and all of that. If you're going to gate content, I would say ungate 80% of everything, including the deep dives and the guides and all of that, and gate just a handful of more of the tactical in the weeds personalized type content. So things like checklists, matrix matress matrices, step by step questionnaires for self ranking, things where you can take an ungated piece of content, like a a guide to product analytics, for example. It's super in-depth and helpful. But then gate, at the very end, one piece is here's your questionnaire to decide at what stage of maturity you are with your product analytics, then I think you're serving best of both worlds.

Mark Evans: It's really interesting because I think a lot of marketers, as you suggest, are dependent on MQLs when it comes to assessing their performance. And if they're not generating those MQLs, if they're not getting the email addresses, that can be a problem. But I think part of the problem with gated content where there are many problems, one is there's so much free ungated content out there. So any barriers to entry, people are gonna balk at. The second is that once you provide an email address, you're essentially opening the doors for a tsunami of of drip marketing. It's it just rolls in and rolls in. And I didn't ask for that. You can reach out to me once or twice. That's fine. But once you put me on a drip marketing campaign that is seem seemingly endless, then you lose any brand affinity that you may have built up. So I think that's a a reality these days. And we may have, as marketers, may have killed the golden goose by Mhmm. By using Martech to essentially talk to people until they capitulate. Okay. I give up. I'll talk to you. Or many people just turn off at all. So that's really, really interesting to me.

Guest: I bet you I bet $20, maybe more. Like, you ask any VP or demand gen director, somebody who looks at MQLs, I'll bet as MQL volume goes up, conversion to meetings held goes down. So why are we focused on volume of MQLs versus the right people at the right time?

Mark Evans: Yeah. And I think a lot of it comes down to attribution. It's hard for marketers these days to do marketing, and a lot of activity can't be attributed because a lot of it's in dark web and dark social. And as a marketer, your performance is assessed by how many leads we get, how much inbound we get, how much website traffic we get. When those are less reliable or you just can't see it, then it does create puts a lot of pressure on marketers to justify what they're doing. So I think it's gonna be a very interesting evolution in terms of how how content is delivered and how how companies connect with with prospects. A lot of the people that I talk with on this podcast have very engaged LinkedIn presences. One of the things that I noticed when well, actually, one of the reasons I noticed you was that you are very active on Twitter. You're very engaged, and you use Twitter in in a way that I use LinkedIn. Like, you've made a huge investment. Clearly, you're you're very engaged with prospects and customers, and I am curious about your embrace of Twitter. As a b to b marketer, a lot of us just gravitate to LinkedIn. Increasingly, some of us are going to TikTok. Why Twitter? How long have you been using it in that way? And can you maybe talk about your approach to using Twitter from a tactical perspective?

Guest: Yeah. I've I've gotten this question before, and I I'm like, I will I when I have when I have a strategy, I'll let you know because I don't really have that. I just have what What I what I do I've only been on Twitter for about a year, but that's why I've only been on LinkedIn before that, like, two years. So I kind of fell into the b to b social space by accident when the startup I was working at, the growth marketer left. I was out of content at the time, so I just kind of, like, wanted to fill in the gaps. And he had been focused on social channels, so I started focusing on more on social channels, and that was that was the beginning of that a couple years ago now. Twitter, specifically, I just wanted to diversify. It's too fancy of a word, but I wanted to jump on a different platform besides LinkedIn because I still I mean, LinkedIn is still bread and butter, like, where I post every day, where I have most followers. But Twitter just felt fun, like a fun break from honestly, LinkedIn can be a little self serious sometimes, and Twitter can be a little overly snarky. So I feel like by being on both, you can balance the balance the two out. So I just started posting more of the, like, the fun, silly, me me type stuff on Twitter, and then that slowly bled back over into into LinkedIn. But, I mean, I don't really have a strategy. My only strategy is, like, consistent posting daily, a few times a day at least, especially on Twitter. And then usually, it's either, is it about freelancing? Great. No. If it's about freelancing or if it's about content marketing, then it's fair game. And then some, like, other broader, like, work life balance and tech stuff thrown in there. But that's about it. That and being proactive, I'll try to respond to comments and DMs and everything that's on there.

Mark Evans: On LinkedIn, there's there are vanity metrics. You can look at number of views, number of likes, number of comments, and it it's self validation. More traction engagement you seem to get, the more motivation you get to post on LinkedIn. Twitter's a different different beast. I mean, of course, there's retweets and there's likes. How do you assess how well you're doing on Twitter? What are the metrics that you'd look at, whether it's data metrics or just qualitative metrics? Do you do you look at it that way?

Guest: I haven't been scientific about it like I probably should be, and I know that lots are. Well, that they'll look at the last week of their tweets and look at the ones that got the most impressions and double down in that area and categorize them and all that. I haven't I haven't done any of that. The only metric I've really paid attention to is gaining followers there. So I've gone it hasn't been anything super crazy, but I've gone from, I think it was, like, 600 to now just over 7,000 over this last year.

Mark Evans: Wow.

Guest: Sounds Okay. This was for a while, my goal was, okay, like, five, six hundred new followers every month. Now, after the last couple months, it's more like a thousand every month as long as I'm tracking towards that. Because it's I don't know. It is just a piece of inbound referral marketing puzzle for my own business. Right? But beyond that, it's just it's kind of a a fun way to engage with the marketing and sales community and tech community as a whole.

Mark Evans: You mentioned diversification when I started asking you about Twitter. And what I've noticed in the last month is many marketers who spend a lot of time on LinkedIn have announced with much fanfare that that they're now on TikTok. Do you feel that do peep people are tired of LinkedIn? Do you feel that maybe they're not getting as much engagement on LinkedIn? Do you feel that perhaps they feel like there's danger in being a one trick pony? As someone who has diversified their social media presence, do have any thoughts on how marketers may be feeling these days about their ability to be in a few places as opposed to one?

Guest: It's yeah. It's a good question. I think it becoming a little it feels weird to say overcrowded because there's so many people on LinkedIn. There's such a small minority that post every day, but it does feel like there's more than there used to be a couple of years ago. So maybe it is harder to stand out. And then the way the LinkedIn algorithm works, like, typically, folks recommend one max, two posts a day, so you have to be a little more thoughtful about what you put up. And, honestly, sometimes it's like a crapshoot. Like, one day, you'll spend thirty minutes putting together a super detailed thread on how you do x y z, and it doesn't get that much engagement. And then the other day, you'll spend thirty seconds putting out some stupid thought that you had in the shower, and it, like, goes viral for LinkedIn. Right? So that could be a piece of it. It's, like, a little more limiting of what you can put out, and especially as more and more people go the b to b creator route where they're actually looking to monetize this. Mhmm. They might be looking for additional channels for audience, right, where you can Twitter, you can do five, six, seven times TikTok. I have no idea, but probably a lot. So that could that could be a piece of it.

Mark Evans: One final question. Where can people learn about you, what you do, where can they find you on Twitter? If people wanna reach out to you, where do how can they do that?

Guest: Twitter, LinkedIn, real Brooke Nash is on Twitter, and then if you just search for me on LinkedIn, Brooklyn Nash. Although speaking out of social, I just put my away message. So my wife, our new director, and I are putting together our new agency for launching in June, so I'm kinda taking a a hiatus from social media the next few months. From posting, I'll still, like, jump on here and there, but I'm not posting or really checking DMs. So you'll be redirected to my email address.

Mark Evans: Okay. Well, good luck with that social media hiatus. We'll see we'll see how successful we are in terms of Yeah. Trying to avoid the the racket for a while.

Guest: Yeah. We'll see.

Mark Evans: Well, thanks for being on the podcast. Really appreciate it. And thanks to everyone for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review, subscribe via Apple Podcast, and share via social media. To learn more about how I help b to b SaaS companies as a fractional CMO, strategic adviser, and coach, send an email to mark@markevans.ca, or connect with me on LinkedIn. I'll talk to you soon.